Mary Schaub (00:10) today I'm talking to Dr. Ralph H. Gross III. He's the president and COO of Scrubius and the author of the book, We Have Nothing to Lose, A Dark Optimist's Call to Action. He's everything this show is about and more, and he's got a lot to talk to us about. Welcome, Ralph. Ralph Groce (00:30) Thanks, Mary. And I am so grateful and humbled and quite inspired by the work that you're doing. It's a privilege, a blessing to be here with you today. And I'm thrilled at what you're doing and glad to participate and help in any way that I can. So thank you. Mary Schaub (00:47) The honor is mine. You are an impressive person I want to contextualize how impressive you are. For those who are going to get to know you today, your prolific career spans technology, finance, and philanthropy. You've been a senior executive for several of the biggest names on Wall Street. You served on a number of boards. including the Fresh Youth Initiatives of New York City, the Socrates Academy in Charlotte, as well as being on the Board of Trustees at Johnson C. Smith University, the Boston University Advisory Board, and you're the chairman of the Boston University Metropolitan College Advisory Board. And as mentioned at the top, you're the president and COO of Scrubius, and now the author of the book, We Have Nothing to Lose, A Dark Optimist's Call to Action. First question, Ralph, when do you sleep? What's going on? Ralph Groce (01:39) That's a great question. So I suffer or I benefit from something called short sleepers. And who need a minimal amount of sleep to work at their optimal best and don't need stimuli to either wake up or remain in that zone of optimization. I actually can operate and for long periods of time in my life, stretches of my life, I've operated with about four hours of sleep. Mary Schaub (02:09) Wow, I had no idea that was sort of a playful question, That's incredible. Ralph Groce (02:14) There is a science behind it. again, much like you, I have reactions to things, I do things, and I work to understand the science behind that, that they're not just random kinds of things. my ability to go long periods of time, without sleep was something that sort of fascinated me for long time. And I wondered about it and did some research on it and discovered that I'm one of these people who don't need a lot of sleep. Mary Schaub (02:40) Another aspect of your superhero nature, met some time ago. I had the pleasure of being your work colleague and now the honor of being your friend. And I'm so excited to talk to you today, especially about your book. And by the way, it's doing very, very well. Last I checked, it's the number one release in the social theory category on Amazon. So congratulations. Ralph Groce (03:04) Thank you. Mary Schaub (03:05) I was lucky enough to get hold of an early copy of We Have Nothing to Lose. And the first thing I said to you was that the timing couldn't have been any better. The week I read it was just after the results of the US presidential election, as well as after government upheavals in France, South Korea, and Syria. And also the day I started the book, the CEO of UnitedHealthcare was killed in New York City. launching an explosive discussion about the anger, frustration, and desperation people are feeling right now. It definitely feels like things are coming to a head and that we're living in extraordinary times of change. But, cliffhanger, before we get into all of that, I'd like to first talk about your origin story because in many ways it feels as though you've been preparing for this moment your whole life. Ralph Groce (03:57) That's a great question. And I often do feel that way. So for people who have read the book and hopefully those who may pick it up and utilize some of their precious time to read it, you know, when I started school, our kindergarten teacher went around the room and asked, what do you all want to be when you grow up? And I had no idea what president United States meant. I'm sure, but that was my answer that I'm going to grow up to be president of the United States. And I'm a person and the importance of that and the impact of that is I'm a person who has always believed we speak our reality into existence. I playfully gave a commencement speech and I quoted Yoda. And one of the things, the principles of his philosophy is do or do not, there is no try. And when I hear people say, and as I have led teams in organizations, one of the first things I do is talk to the team about the lexicon. I'm always about transformational change. Even when you don't... Mary Schaub (04:42) I love it. Ralph Groce (05:01) think you need transformational change. You need transformational change because the world around you is constantly evolving. There is no, you don't get to the top and stay at the top without consistently changing, consistently evolving. know, one of my mentors and heroes, Coach Patino used to say, if it ain't broke, break it. So this notion of if it ain't broke, don't fix it is false. It's, it is, hidden complacency, if you will. So I'm very careful about the words I speak. I'm very careful about the, when I lead teams that we won't use words like try or hope or can't if you try, you're not doing, if you're hoping you're not doing, and if you can't exactly. Mary Schaub (05:46) There's a passivity to it, isn't there? Ralph Groce (05:49) It is your reality. It is your truth. And you are where you're going to be by virtue of having given birth to those things. So that declaration of wanting to be president was something that has stayed with me my entire life over the course of everything that I've done. And I've never been able to escape it. That there is a calling. There is a responsibility. I believe in string theory and alternate realities. And I believe there's a reality out there where I am president in United States. I just don't know that this is the one. But that said, the book is about more than just me being president. It's about hopefully inspiring people to realize that we have power. We have capabilities and we have a responsibility to do something positive. coach Patino told his team that Larry Bird ain't walking through that door. choose your savior, choose your savant, choose whomever you want. They aren't walking through that door. And yet we are, you and I and others are everything we need to be to affect positive change on this planet, We are everything we need to be. We just need to take up that mantle, embrace that responsibility, embrace our power. both as individuals and collectively and get to work. Mary Schaub (07:15) The tagline on the show, we'll talk more about it in a bit, but is you are the change you've been waiting for. And I think when there are periods of overwhelm and helplessness, it is easy to look for the hero. We have these Marvel comics, we have these archetypes that are steered into our brain about someone coming to save us. And maybe we all have been operating from a place of passivity waiting for that. And it's hard. And as human beings, we are primed against change. Everything about it is working against us. I'm curious how someone adopts this mindset and this way of living. There's a way of operating in the world. I think that is so fascinating about you. What you've been so generous with is sharing your background with us in this book as well. you talk about growing up in Pittsburgh, you were identified as a kid as being exceptionally bright. In fact, you tested so high, you were put into a program which required you to be bussed to a nearly all white school. There you excelled academically. really being, I don't know if this is fair, you tell me, is profoundly self-driven. As I'm reading this book in sort of these early years, you describe your folks as being, quote, tiger parents on steroids. And I wanted to know whether that's where this period of your life is where this intense level of drive and resiliency comes from. Ralph Groce (08:43) say it absolutely does. So there is science about you know part of behavior being genetically driven. And my father certainly was someone who was very driven but not always focused. one of the interesting aspects of my childhood and upbringing, at least the way I remember it is that my parents didn't tell me what to do. Their expectation was for me to figure it out. and then held me responsible for the outcomes as part of that exercise to figure it out. So when I got it wrong, there were consequences. When I got it right, I simply went to the next challenge. Coach Rotino and my father never met one another, but they were very philosophically alike. I was not allowed to experience the comfort of complacency or the comfort of consistency and predictability. So the minute I mastered one thing with respect to the responsibilities that I had, everything would change. my father would introduce a new set of expectations, a new set of standards, a new set of outcomes that he expected me to achieve. be like, that's not fair. That's not right. Can I celebrate the fact that I've won? And I was never allowed to do that. And so what it Mary Schaub (09:49) Can I rest? Ralph Groce (09:58) made me get comfortable with was this whole notion of change and evolution and the constantness of it, the seemingly unending grind that things are going to change. as I moved away from my existence and my life in Pittsburgh, for me, change and transformation was just a natural part of who I was. And as I got to the workforce, it became a struggle for me to, to appreciate the fact that not everybody felt this way when we know we need to change, even when we want to change, even when there's pain associated with the place that we're in and the things that we're doing, you will still find people who will resist changing. because of the fear of the unknown, because of fear, the unpredictability of it, people will resist that change. And so it took me a long time to understand and begin to manage my leadership style to account for that fear and help people progress beyond it and pass it to a better place. Mary Schaub (11:06) As you're talking, I'm imagining this little boy who carries this incredible inner force, this desire to be the best. And I think there could be a narrative that someone could apply here that looks at this in a negative way. Someone might hear your story and think, poor Ralph, Tiger parents on steroids, all these early challenges, and now he carries this burden of holding himself to perfectionistic ideals. But I don't experience you like this at all. And this comes through in the book, I think, really well. It feels to me, but you keep me honest, that you consciously made the decision to tell a different story about yourself and to use all these prior challenging experiences as almost like exercises to strengthen your character. Is that fair? Ralph Groce (12:03) It is fair. Because I can tell you, I grew up angry. I grew up somewhat resentful. it was a challenge. Part of what drove me was this desire imposed upon me by my parents to be the best, not just do my best. My father once said to me, I'm not interested in your best. I'm interested in the best. my best was not good enough. Had to be the best. and, so there was a lot of resentment and of course there were implications to not being the best. So there was a lot of resentment, there was a lot of anger and it took a lot. It took timely intervention from others to help me. put that anger and that resentment in the right place. To even use that in some cases, it's kind of rocket fuel to prove that I can be the best. I'm going to prove others are wrong about what they think my limitations and what they think my capabilities are. I'm going to use that to propel Mary Schaub (12:45) Yes, Ralph Groce (12:57) But I had to evolve and I had to figure out how to, round the corners. So the corners used to be really sharp and one of the things I learned about leadership is you can't declare yourself leader. You become a leader because people are willing to follow and you inspire followership. You can't lead if no one will follow. And so I had to become the kind of person that people would want to follow Mary Schaub (13:48) I think that is part of the finding out who you are, the process you're describing and finding out what to do with it. And the jet fuel. And it's funny you mentioned that because I just wrote something on this. I'm gonna send it to you. I'd love your feedback on it. I operated in my late teens and early twenties with a massive chip on my shoulder. And it was the propellant to get me out of my own atmosphere and propel me. But like rocket fuel, and I did Google it for this article, it's only used for the launch, right? It's a certain kind of propellant that's used for launch and that's different. for the rest of the journey. And it's not suited long-term. It's great for that kick in the ass, but you can't subsist on anger and that chip. I'm hearing you talk about how you had the insight to recognize, now I need to evolve past it. You might have different followers if that was part of your leadership style. the other thing you mentioned in the book is having felt at times like you're traveling in a group of one. And it makes complete sense to me as you're talking and sharing about your early experiences and being this remarkable little boy who was extraordinary for any environment, but even more so considering the environment that you were in and the challenges you faced early on. And you say in the book that in some ways you still feel this way to this day, that you're traveling in a group of one. Can you say more about this and maybe how it plays into your lifelong gravitation toward leadership? Ralph Groce (15:29) as I talk to young people, one of things I talk to them about is the power of ambition and plans and understanding the road you want to travel, understanding the outcomes you want to achieve. Who do you want to be? Where do you want to go? Why do you want to do those things? Because although I believe I live in a world that is boundless. The fact of the matter is, is that you should have some guardrails to help guide you where you're going to go. You won't make choices that are not, inconsistent with the outcomes you want to achieve. So that's really super important to me and always has been. But what I have found is, you know, over the course of my life, given where I've come from is, just tended to want things that are beyond what most people think are possible. one of the things that's on the cover of the book is the words of preposterously audacious. You know, I'm talking about being president. I'm from Pittsburgh, a small community within the city of Pittsburgh where people don't dream of being president because that just doesn't happen. I remember a manager of mine, me telling him that I wanted to be a CIO. Damn, Ralph, that's not gonna happen. And so I've heard this sort of rhetoric and dialogue all over the course of my life and coming from a variety of different sources, even people who meant well, who were trying to counsel me and... helped me to a place where I'm managing my expectations, I'm managing my ambitions because the likelihood of me achieving the things that I'm talking about achieving are minimal at best. And they're right, they're not wrong, they're right. Mary Schaub (17:14) They're projecting themselves though, they're projecting their own fears, right, onto you. They're trying to be helpful, but they're operating from their own way of operating, which is being fearful of taking a risk. Ralph Groce (17:27) Exactly. And they certainly are projecting that on me. And that gets back to that Yoda, do or do not, there is no try. I tell a story in the book watching the Boston Marathon and saw a runner military and several of his comrades had been killed in combat. And he was running for them and he gets to the last half mile quarter mile and his body just gives up gives out and he falls to the ground falls to his knees and begins crawling the rest of the way. And people are rushing over to him to help him and he's like get away from me get away from me. I need to do this for them. I need to do this for me His ability to get across that line on his own, unassisted, unaided, the strength of his will, the strength of his conviction, made it possible. we live in a world where extraordinary things are possible. Mary Schaub (18:16) what I'm hearing you talk about resilience, which we talk a lot about, and sometimes it's on the money and sometimes it's not, but to be an effective catalyst for change, you need to find out how to be resilient when things don't go the way you want them to because... It's most of the time that things don't go the way you want them to. And for you, at one point in your career, you were in line to be CEO of Deutsche Bank and you don't get the job and you decide not to settle. And instead of shrinking yourself into a box that's too small, you make the decision to start your own company. And its mission is to address income inequality, providing a way for women and people of color to invest in equity markets. And then this... doesn't go the way you'd like. And again, you decide not to give up, not to settle, not to shrink. And instead you open the Nowhere Art Gallery and that's spelled K-N-O-W. Can you tell me what was going on for you during this time? Because it could have been really easy to settle into a space of being resentful and feeling sorry for yourself, but you didn't. Ralph Groce (19:27) Well, again, just going back to the way I was raised and the lessons, the benefit of those lessons as difficult as they were. Help me. build the kind of muscle memory and strength to persevere. And you mentioned Marvel Comics I happen to collect Marvel Comics. I believe one of my superpowers is perseverance. My father, he used to say to me, and he did not mean this as a compliment, you know what your problem is? You're too dumb to quit. it clearly was not meant to be a compliment, but it absolutely describes, one of my secret powers, that ability to be too dumb to quit. could not convince them to invest in me and invest in the company, despite the progress that I had made, the investment, and the platform that I had built, to stop. That wasn't a reason to yield to despair. There's work to be done. so I always knew I was going to start another company with my spouse. We started nowhere. And the platform is about the reason why we spell it K-N-O-W is about leveraging art to drive enlightenment. So we don't just hang art. We tell stories. And the art becomes a basis upon which people come to the gallery irrespective of whether they buy anything at all. we are a for-profit business, but it's about folks walking into this environment and being challenged by what they see. we have patrons that come in over and over and over again, over the course of a particular exhibition, And each time you can just see the wheels turning. And it's just a fascinating thing to watch and experience. And we feel very fortunate that we've been entrusted with the works of some amazing artists who were telling some extraordinary stories And then that brings me to Scroobius being a partner in that business. My partner, she had a similar experience, started a medical device company, raised a certain amount of money in their first round of funding, got to their second round of funding, struggled to raise the funding They sold the company to white males and this is not about a value judgment of color or gender or anything, but they took pretty much the same idea, they didn't change anything and were able to raise $55 million shortly after they bought the company. That caused her to do research as to why these outcomes were so different. How come she couldn't do what they had managed to do? And she discovered inequities in the venture capital world, with regards to who is funded and who is not. there's a perception of risk associated with underrepresented founders, predominantly women and people of color, that somehow their ventures are less likely to succeed. There's more risk associated with it. The numbers in the science don't support that. Women half the freaking population, are starting businesses and achieving outcomes that are consistently equal to or better than men. They're the fastest demographic starting their own businesses. what Scrubius is trying to do is to provide an ecosystem of angel investors. and connect them to underrepresented founders who need these resources such that they can support one another and these businesses can flourish, on. Mary Schaub (22:57) the thing that pops up for me when I read the book and is again as we're speaking because I'm a big fan of Carl Jung and Joseph Campbell's power of myth is the concept of the hero's journey And your story, to me is a hero's journey in a hero's journey arc, there's a point of no return for the character. you can't turn back. were you ever tempted? Because at some point you could have just been like, yep, this is cool. I've got the gallery, but I'm going to take this well-paying job on wall street, spend the rest of my life playing golf or maybe in your case, playing basketball Do remember being challenged or tempted at any point or have you always been laser focused on doing this? Ralph Groce (23:35) I've always been. focused. The laser has been. sometimes there and sometimes not there as much, but even when it's not laser focus, I'm, I found myself uncomfortable that even though I'm achieving success, that I'm not where I'm supposed to be. Mary Schaub (23:57) what I'm hearing you say is that it's irrelevant what season or chapter of your life and what the challenges are, Your operating system is you hold yourself accountable. You align your, values and your mission to your actions and behavior and you're constantly auditing that. Ralph Groce (24:35) I read a book a long time ago by Tony Robbins. one of the things that he said that I found so powerful is ask people what they want to be. Take note of the lack of specificity. it's almost a fear, some conscious, some unconscious, of being very specific about, want this. And there are very, very few people who want to say that. And certainly very, even fewer people who will say it aloud. And that's the key. I made a declaration. that this is who I am. This is what I want. This is where I'm going. And I've been conscious of doing that every step of the way. So when I wanted to play division one basketball, I said it out loud. I said to people, I want to play D1 basketball. When I said I wanted to go to Boston, I said it out loud. So I made a commitment, not just to myself, but I made a declaration to the world. I've told others, and now I've written a book that says, this is what I'm going for. That's a very, very powerful part of my journey and my existence. And I share with other people. If you mean it, say it. Don't keep it to yourself. Say it aloud. Say it to people. Mary Schaub (25:44) It's courageous to take that leap saying to everybody, you can hold me accountable because I'm going to go on record. I think it's important to talk a little bit about the unfiltered reality and challenges which come as a result of these transformations. Along with your intense energy, I would describe you kind of like myself as one who doesn't suffer fools, operating in the way you're describing, being very unapologetic about who you are and what you want to do. might cause people like myself to gravitate toward you because we're similar in that way. But I'm also guessing that it might put some people off too who are threatened Can you talk a little bit about the challenges you faced being authentic and unapologetic Ralph Groce (26:27) You bring up a very good set of points and a very real set of realities because it's very true. There are people who are attracted by this power, this dynamic, this philosophy. There are people who are frightened of it and some who are repelled by it and some who find it almost sort of blasphemous, if you will, Mary Schaub (26:51) Mm-hmm. Ralph Groce (26:52) I've come to learn how not to be in any way judgmental about anyone who doesn't want any part of this I'm completely non-judgmental about, their perception of who I am and what I'm trying to accomplish. Mary Schaub (27:10) The part of the title of your book includes the words call to action. So I personally believe that we're all somewhat complicit in contributing to the world's problems. If anyone's been in traffic with me or seen my road rage, it's very, very opposite of this Zen chill philosopher thing I'm trying to project here. But I also think that we all carry a responsibility to aid in its healing. And it doesn't mean we all have to aspire to be president. But in my mind, the call to action you're talking about might include even just starting with acceptance that we need to start to look honestly at things, including ourselves and how each of us might be contributing in both positive and negative ways. There's a philosophical view that everything that's happening outside is representative of everything that's happening inside of us. It's being acted out. But I also think there's an opportunity to serve others and serve communities. In your book, you talk about the coalition of the willing, and you say it starts with having the courage to commit to changing. Can you say more about that? Ralph Groce (28:20) So I believe that, term coalition of the willing was under President Bush, the first Bush in Desert Storm and amassing a coalition of willing nations who going to go out and effect change but I'm using that term in a slightly different context not waging war, but, getting involved, being intentional about taking consequential action arising every day with a sense of purpose as you said, being the change that we want to see. Not thinking that someone is going to come along, me, I'm going to come along and save the world. I'm not. We are. If there's change that's going to happen, it's going to be a function of our collective will, our collective action, our willingness to get the courage and feed off the courage of everyone else that's part of this coalition to affect the change that we need and want in this country and in this world. It has to be a sense of urgency about it. Because no decision and no action is a decision. And some of the things that are unfolding before our very eyes are going to leave us in a place where the possible set of solutions are going to be less than optimal. If there are any solutions at all to some of the things that are unfolding. Mary Schaub (29:39) I recently recorded a show that'll come out in a couple of weeks. And I argue that where we are in the world, the challenges, existential threats, this is exactly why this is the right time to go inward and figure out who you are and your meaning and purpose in the world. And it can seem counterintuitive or selfish. It's like, there's so much stuff happening out there. I need to just run out and start fixing things. And maybe there's a sense of privilege and indulgence with doing inner work. But I think what's happening outside is a consequence of inner work not being the current state of the world is an opportunity and the right time why we should all be seeking greater meaning and purpose. Do you see that connection too? Ralph Groce (30:25) Absolutely. you just summed up the whole story, that's the power of dark optimism in that recognizing, man, we're in a place where we're kind of screwed. Things are really topsy-turvy. Things are really in a bad, precarious state. But the recognition of that... And the admission of that actually begins to give us the power to change And as dark as things seem to feel and seem to be, there is not only a glimmer of hope, but the power of possibility, the power of opportunity to affect change just as that man was crawling towards that finish line. If we can just put one hand and one knee and one hand in front of me, they seem like small things, but they are so incredibly powerful. Yeah, this is absolutely the right time. Now we have to seize it because as we both recognize, there's a sense of urgency. There's this calamity waiting on the other side of inaction, indecision. if we can muster the power to just take one small step combined with the smallest step of someone else and someone else and someone else, the power of that is just extraordinary. Mary Schaub (31:41) It can be overwhelming when you're looking outside to try to fix everything. if I go back to my corporate life and I know you've navigated complex change in large corporate environments, but it starts by breaking things down into smaller pieces, right? whether that's a corporate change program, a self-improvement plan, folks... need, I think they want tangible advice to get started. can we help people start this journey knowing that it's a long one and some of the things are quite big, even personal development is quite big. I just wrote an article about monitoring your social media use, seeing how much time you're putting on your phone, starting with the things that are getting in the way of you recognizing the sense of urgency. when people are overwhelmed and freaked out we see addiction rates skyrocketing, we see social media rates skyrocket, there's all these self numbing behaviors. People are I think we need to empower them and give them the tools and resources to go on this journey. Ralph Groce (32:49) I think a lot of what we're talking about in terms of changing the world around you begins at home. my ability to affect change and create outcomes, positive outcomes, it starts with me being the best version of myself. Because at the end of the day, the only thing that I can possibly have some hope of controlling is me. You can help how you feel with the amount of rest you get or the kinds of foods you eat or, you know, getting off of social media as addictive as it is, and it is addictive. Mary Schaub (33:12) Mm-hmm. Ralph Groce (33:26) It's not a wellspring of positivity. It's just not. And so beginning to pull yourself back from that. Going out for a walk in the morning, you'd be surprised. You might see someone who... who stumbled and fell and because you were walking that day, you were there to pick them up. You might see someone who's homeless and hungry. And because you chose to walk that day, you can have an impact on that life by maybe buying that person a meal or going to the market and bringing them a piece of fruit or something. Just by virtue of you having gotten out of the house and done something different to improve yourself, you open up yourself to the possibility. of impacting the world around you. And it's that simple. my uncle was amazed at how easy it is for bad people to accomplish stuff. They just get stuff done. Just to give you a recent horrible example, I'm watching TV New Year's Day, and someone from Texas decides that they're going to drive a truck through New Year's celebration in New Orleans. One guy. had went around, canvassed the area and set up incendiary devices that he was going to detonate. In addition to driving this truck, this is one guy who changed lives. But good people, we struggle to get things done. I don't know where to start. I don't know what to do. I don't know how to do. We just struggle to get things done. When these bad people just get out and get bad stuff done. It's not that hard. We just have to be equally as committed the positive change in good as someone else's for negative change and negative outcomes. We just have to be equally as committed, equally as focused, equally as driven. And we're not. And it's to our detriment that we're not. And that has to change. out of this entire thing is just go get shit done. Do it. Mary Schaub (35:34) What you're describing in my mind is a prevention to what happened in New Orleans there's this feeling of helplessness combined with rage and... powerlessness and in some cases people act that is this propellant to something really horrible. But if you backtrack to earlier on in their timelines trying to get in touch with this and trying to find a way of contributing and belonging which we all want I think what you're talking about, the call to action, is trying to proactively think about this amidst the darkness and the frustration that we're seeing in society right now, when that propellant happens and it goes into a really bad place, it's too late, but let's get in front of it. Let's start to inspire people. You can get that love and validation and value and need and sense of belonging by contributing in a positive way and healing yourself and everything else. Ralph Groce (36:36) Absolutely. And, you know, not only fix that for yourself, but fix it for others. And so all you have to do is impact one life. That's all you have to do. And even if that one life is your own, that's progress. That's progress. Mary Schaub (36:52) And you never know the compounding effects of all of our actions. You were saying, you go out and just do something. And by the way, I have always found that I feel so much better. I feel true joy and happiness when I have that interaction with someone. We have an abundance of love. It's love, right? We have this abundance and we're sometimes scared to share it almost. you know, maybe we're afraid we don't have enough. have to save some for ourselves or someone has to qualify for it or meet the terms and conditions of it, but they don't. You can give it away and there'll be more and it will come back to you. You and I had an interesting experience, well, sort of related. I was on vacation a couple of weeks ago and I was scuba diving and I met someone on the boat. And for those of you who scuba dive, usually there's like, a period of you're on the boat going to the dive site until you end up chatting up your boatmates. And I ended up talking to this man and he was telling me some wonderful things that he wants to do. And he's at a point in his career where he's thinking about starting up something that would provide opportunities for others, He's now in a position where he can help others. And I was so excited and I told him about Scroobius and I said I was gonna connect him and send him the link. And later he sent me a text message and just said like, you're just some stranger. you spent all this time talking to me about this stuff. Like he was so surprised. And I think he was surprised because we don't do this a lot anymore. We're all very shut down and kind of keeping to ourselves. there were a lot of people on the boat who were on their phone. which was astounding to me. I'm like, you're in the middle of paradise and you're sitting on your phone and there's all these interesting people and let's talk and get to know each other. And he texted me this nice thing and just sort of like remarking that he was surprised. but the kindness I felt coming back from him was even greater than maybe he felt. From me and then I connected him into scubias and and I just thought well, this is how change happens. This is this coalition, right? This is how whatever happens maybe something happens It doesn't at least for a moment in time me and another human being had this interaction of hey, I see you Good for you to be doing this brave effort of trying to invoke change in the world Ralph Groce (38:51) Exactly. Mary Schaub (39:09) I see you and if there's something I can do to help, let me know and I'll connect you in and it takes nothing away. It takes nothing away. Ralph, thank you so much for being here. I'm just so, I'm so inspired and in awe of how you live your life. And I think for me, Ralph Groce (39:15) Exactly. Exactly. Mary Schaub (39:27) And maybe this is the effect of your father and uncles coming down to me, but I love to surround myself with people like you, people who are doing extraordinary things. Because similarly to the lesson that your father taught you, I don't want to get complacent I want to be like Ralph. want to put together a book like this and I want to inspire other people. Thank you for being my friend and in my life to inspire me. we're gonna end today in honor of the French journalist Bernard Pivot and inspired, read in parentheses ripped off by the wonderful James Lipton. I'm gonna close with a series of questions. So here we go. What person or people first showed you your own power? Ralph Groce (39:55) Thank you. I think it would have to be as corny as this may sound. would have to be my father. And an add on to that would be my grandfather. I'm the third and my grandfather started the church that I attended seemingly every single day of my childhood. grandfather and father. Mary Schaub (40:32) What film do you find most inspiring? Ralph Groce (40:35) Remember the Titans. Mary Schaub (40:36) What is your favorite character from literature or film? Ralph Groce (40:39) Dr. Doom. he talked about the power of knowledge. watching someone who doesn't have superpowers but rises to a level of extraordinary proportions and dimensions by the force of their will was very, very inspiring to me. Mary Schaub (40:57) What song do you play to psych yourself up? Ralph Groce (41:00) three come to mind. One is by Carlos Santana it's called Try a Little Harder. Second song is by Linkin Park and it's called Lost in the Echo. Mary Schaub (41:09) I love Ralph Groce (41:10) then the third song is by a gospel duo, Brother and Sister Bebe and C.C. Wyman and it's called Meantime. Mary Schaub (41:18) What is your favorite comfort food? Ralph Groce (41:19) Ben and Jerry's pistachio ice cream. Mary Schaub (41:22) Nice. What do you do to unwind, self-soothe, or remind yourself not to take life too seriously, if you're able to do that? Ralph Groce (41:31) well, I combine two of my passions. One of them is, is music as I was just talking about and writing. And of those things together, I can go to places that I don't even recognize. Mary Schaub (41:43) What sound fills your heart with joy? Ralph Groce (41:47) my mother's laughter. She thinks I'm funny and there aren't many people who think I'm funny. she just turned 90 on January 1st of this year and the, the ability to speak with her and make her laugh is really, I feel pretty good after that. Mary Schaub (41:50) Aww. bless. I'm sure she's very proud of you. What is your spirit animal? Ralph Groce (42:09) several years ago, we did this exercise when I was one of the companies and it was trying to build a characterization of who you were based upon behaviors and things of that nature. And turns out that my spirit animal is an owl. And it represents my ability to operate at very, very high levels, seeing the big picture, understanding everything that's going on, the path from here to there. then being able to swoop down at incredibly low levels and get into the details Mary Schaub (42:39) What is your favorite quote? Ralph Groce (42:41) several years ago, I was asked to do a commencement speech at Boston University, and I came across a quote that has stayed with me and it's become one of my favorite and it's something to the effect of the people crazy enough to think they can change the world are the ones that do. when I read that, was like, wow, that's got Ralph Gross written all over it, preposterously audacious and crazy enough to think I can change the world. Mary Schaub (43:00) Yeah. Yeah. That might end up being the title of this episode. Well, and finally, how do you wish to be remembered? Ralph Groce (43:11) if there is someone who might remember me. Just remember it is someone who tried to make a change and tried to have an impact and who did that in an intentional kind of way with a sense of purpose. You know, hopefully, hopefully I'm able to do that. Mary Schaub (43:26) Well, I will remember you as being courageous and being compassionate and being a force for good in the world. And that's a hero in my mind. So it was really an honor and a pleasure to have you sit down and talk to me today. Thank you so much. I feel like we could have spoken several more hours. I would love it if you would maybe come back and we can continue the conversation, talk more about the work you're doing in Scubius, and of course, talk about your future presidential race and how to keep inspiring people to find that inner strength and connection to the world. So thank you so much, Ralph. Ralph Groce (44:07) It would be my pleasure. And thank you. This is a phenomenal platform. You're an amazing person. Mary Schaub (44:15) thank you so much.